Curse

Shadowspawn X · Aug 11, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbess

Exhaustion wont toll the ritualist too much unless you combine too many of the spirits that cause exhaustion. They reduced the energy cost of these skills significantly. In fact, i can see it helping a spirit spammer more than hurting one. Think about it. One exhaustion skills effects wear off quickly. Think of an elementalist that brings meteor in their bar. Have you ever heard them complaining about too much exhaustion?

What a ridiculous comparison. The ele has 85 - 115 energy pod and the the rit is 40-50 range. Do you even play GW?

DeBron · Aug 11, 2007, 06:16 PM // 18:16

The exhaustion is too much for a character who has 45e-55e. Using one exhaustion causing spell creates problems.

This is not the answer, but ANET doesn't care. PvPers can bitch and moan all they want: and they'll get what they want. PvEers are left to deal with it.

Looks like it's time to tackle the next flavor of the month and subsequently reduce that class to garbage.

lunksunkunk · Aug 11, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Another example of PvP oveshadowing PvE. Ritspike is gone, now its time for another easy-to-use, overpowered, abused team build to come out so that Anet can once again nerf to oblivion. Its a never-ending cycle till all thats left of PvP, much less PvE, is warriors runing around w/ res sig, and heal sig, wanding each other to death, and whoever kites the best wins.

Lothmorg · Aug 11, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Wow. Does anyone really believe that ArenaNet doesn't care? Do they really think that they listen to one side more than the other?
They have played PvE. They play and watch current PvP play. They see the changes that need to be made due to overpowered builds and they take the steps to fix it.
There is no favoritism. Think about it. If you were running the show, how would you implement change? You observe and modify - not ask on a message board. They have tons of testers that do nothing but try these changes both in PvE and PvP.

I hate PvP. I hate the changes they force on me in PvE whenever they balance skills and classes. It's comes with the territory. Get used to it.

I'll have to adapt they way I play my Ritualist in PvE yet again.
Please don't think that there is any favoritism towards PvP just because something needs balancing.

Kashrlyyk · Aug 11, 2007, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

I'd just liked to mention Enraged.

Or that enemies seem to never have energy problems. I am pretty sure they don´t care for exhaustion.

Ctb · Aug 11, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

<b>DeBron:</b> <i>PvEers are left to deal with it.</i>

That's because the PvE community (at least the part that gets farther in the game) is generally smarter than the PvP "community" and can figure things out on its own. Which is why PvP is so frequently dominated not by skilled players, but by lifeless bozos who have endless amounts of spare time to sit and try every conceivable profession and skill combination until they find something that wasn't intended to exploit HA.

It's a minor annoyance. Rits aren't useless in PvE, people just haven't found the new use for them that is needed to keep them popular. Just like the other 32 million times PvPers found some cheap spike build that got previously popular profession combinations nerfed for everyone.

I'll await the next "wwaaaaah waaahhhh, I have to stop and think about a new way to play now wwwaaah" thread which should be around shortly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lothmorg

Do they really think that they listen to one side more than the other?

As a longtime GW player, I'm still tainted by the pre-Factions attitude of ANET where, basically, they didn't give a rat's ass about PvE because they viewed PvE as the "newbie" part of the game and expected everyone to switch over the PvP once they beat the environment aspect.

Whether they've changed their attitude since then or not, I don't know. I generally stopped paying any attention to them when that gigantic anti-PvE turd called "factions" wasted my money.

pingu666 · Aug 11, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho

HawkofStorms · Aug 11, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Look, I'm a primary PvE player, but I understand the need for the nerf to Rit spike. Balance in the PvP game is more important though then not touching your build. Just go and try some underused skills instead of complaining. Fix your builds. Nerfs happen, get over yourself.

sindex · Aug 11, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Because the few conservative PvP’ers only want monks and warriors in and everything else out.

GloryFox · Aug 11, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

posted by Chicken Ftl
Word to you PvE rits out there who're complaining: not many of the good PvE skills for Rit were even touched. If you're spamming Wielder's Strike in PvE, you suck. If you use the spirits that now cause exhaustion often enough to actually be hurt by the exhaustion (how is this even possible when most have 20s+ recharge anyway, unless you load up on multiple spirits that cause it?), you suck. I don't see any nerfs to any of the better skills for PvE... So instead of blaming PvP for everything, learn to play your class first.

Wow you must be the LEET SKILLZ DUDE to say that. (not)

Allow me to educate you on spirit summoning 101 and why you can have 3 25 E cost spirits and still be effective in PvE or PvP. There is this wonderful item you can get in HzH from a collector its a Communing offhand +27E -1E pip +30 hp, when you combine this with armor you end up with 70 E with 3 pips of energy regen. When Blood song was moved to channeling most Ritualist PvX spirit turret summoners had to find a better way of summoning and maintaining energy because you could not divide between 3 attributes (Spawning power, communing and channeling). The awnser came in the form of Offering of Spirit, or Signet of Spirits both channeling. With OoS (the better skill IMO) you could ensure enough energy for Anguish 25, Dissonance 25, Disenchantment 25, as well as Blood song 5, Pain 5, and Shadow Song 10. Thats your 6 primary turrets and an energy management skill plus a Res for PvE or something else for PvP. In this way you can avoid Spawning Power altogether for better turret offense. (no help from spawning power anymore, the better Spirit E, management was and still is, in Channeling) With OoS you can gain 16-18E every 15 seconds -5 from the cost. It's a very good energy management skill at level 13 or 16.

Now turret Summoners must contend with 30 points of exhaustion now. If you look at it in % of energy alone that would be a higher % of energy ineffectiveness than a Elementalist with 3 skills that cause the same exhaustion.

Whereas an Elementalist with 30 points of exaustion could simply deal with it with his/her high energy. A Ritualist suffers more because a Ritualist has less energy overall than an Elementalist and therefore has a higher % of energy ineffectiveness. I just can't see how this is good for the class overall with less energy then the class what was designed to deal with it.

Chicken Ftw · Aug 11, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Yawn. /sage for failure and melodramatic PvErs who claim the entire class was ruined by eight skills, most of which have 20s+ recharge, now causing exhaustion. The skills hit weren't even all that good to use in PvE, gtfo with your mindless bitching about how PvP ruins the game for you.

Side note, I'm actually surprised to see some people understand that nerfs are necessary. Am I really in Riverside? Wow. <3

Ctb · Aug 11, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

The skills hit weren't even all that good to use in PvE, gtfo with your mindless bitching about how PvP ruins the game for you.

Gee, and PvP players just never understand why PvE players are so disrespectful toward them. I just can't grasp why that might be...

Shadowspawn X · Aug 11, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho

Oh you like your nice new improved shiny skills? Try this:

1) grab your ritualist make your best channeling/communing build be sure to use some of the nice newly balanced skills
2) grab the heroes/henchies
3) Go to Vizunah Square make sure you are in hard mode
4) Enter mission and get your guardian point
5) Then post back here and tell me how balanced it was and how much fun you had with those nice new improved skills.

kooomar · Aug 11, 2007, 06:55 PM // 18:55

What is the deal with people that do primarily PvE ripping on people that do PvP. Do you guys even realize that the high end PvPers are closely knit into the PvE world, probably more closely than most of the people that call themselves the "PvE community." Sure let the flames come, I know they will, but myself and many other people that are rank 9 and higher (again, let the flames come) are also ones with 20+ max titles and high end weapons. Just accept it as a GW community and stop being so freaking prejudice as to what "community" needed the nerf.

This nerf barely hurts PvE rits at all, the energy reduction is next to amazing in fact, and (from spirit spamming 101) maybe you dont need to have a 15 -1 offhand now, since they are less energy, and maybe you can drop one of the 3 spirits giving you exhaustion? 1 or 2 spirits giving exhaustion doesn't even hurt you that bad, with the long recharge.

I dunno, to me it seems that its a test (oh wait, thats because they said that) so, you don't need to get worked up about why they nerfed it, and play along with it. Also, one thing that made me MORE curious, how many of you people that are whining like children have a MAIN toon thats a rit?

Thorton2006 · Aug 11, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

I play a Rit in both PvE and PvP and love the class. This change is annoying, but nothing that is going to destroy my builds. However, what is really irritating are the reduced recharge times coupled with the exhaustion. With an average energy pool of 50, I can't spam a quick recharge spell that is exhausting my energy. If the exhaustion is meant to stop me from spamming, then well done, I have stopped. But why the reduced recharge times?

If a Rit spell has to have exhaustion, increase the recharge time and some benefit (specifically, Dissonance/Disenchantment could last for 45 seconds and have a 30 recharge) - my two cents.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 11, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorton2006

But why the reduced recharge times?

To give you the option of spamming.
It's like Obsidian Flame, or the Mind spells - you need to judge when the best time to cast it is, weigh up if the exhaustion is worth it, and if you really need something dead.

GloryFox · Aug 11, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

This nerf barely hurts PvE rits at all, the energy reduction is next to amazing in fact, and (from spirit spamming 101) maybe you dont need to have a 15 -1 offhand now, since they are less energy, and maybe you can drop one of the 3 spirits giving you exhaustion? 1 or 2 spirits giving exhaustion doesn't even hurt you that bad, with the long recharge.

Thank you and yes I tried that yesterday and this morning. Even with one spirit that caused 10 exhaustion (20 was just seriously brutal) and a normal non +27E offhand or staff. I still ran into several Energy management problems with timed missions (in normal mode not hard mode) and some Hard mode clearance areas. After a while I had to rely on my wand and kiting skills to not get killed because I would end up with half of my energy exhausted (25 pips out of 55 so 30 effective energy) after a prolonged period of time. Unlike a good Ele Air build where I would simply cast Air Attunement and Conjure lighting to keep DPS up and energy stable the exhaustion was almost too much to handle. (and I happen to be a good Rit, and Air Ele player BTW so I'm no noob to the comparisons). Simply put any class that has an average of 45-55 energy cannot handle any exhaustion and keep up with everyone else in any PvX fashion. If you add this to the already existing nerfs to the entire communing line you find that the communing line of skills is completely out of balance to any other set of skills to any other class profession.

Sazgo · Aug 11, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

To say pve rits arent effected is totally wrong. Spirit rift and ancestors rage was one of the only ways i was getting into elite missions/doa without being a handicap to the group, as it was possible to argue that you can take the place of an ele in the build but now you cant at all, ancestors rage is a joke in its current state, it may as well have a 20-30 sec recharge, spirit rift 2 sec cast time is a huge dps loss as well, i was relying on arcane echo's spirit rift with ghostly haste up before and in between you use your e-management skills but now more time is spent casting what is still the same nuke and nothing has been gained. Arcane echo ancestors rage made it possible to nuke moving targets as well but its kind of a joke now full grey energy bar so fast.

I like to bring something useful to a group with my rit not just be a bad monk/ele that shouldnt be there if people wanted the most effective setup.

On spirits, i was using anguish and wanderlust in the same build as there is currently no useful elite for the offensive spirit spammer build, having 2 with exhaustion just messes you up totally and i see this as an unessessary change, spirits cant be directly controlled and dont do 'spike' damage at all so why the need to nerf.

I wont even consider carrying passive effect ashes when i have to deal with exhaustion with my already average energy pool.

I would of thought if you want to fix a spike you lower the base damage and compensate with this with changeing recharge/energy cost/cast time. Adding exhaustion and cast times just means you cant sustain a good level of damage over time.

Diddy bow · Aug 11, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho

no it deosnt

.

Channeling magic is pretty much air magic, so it should have exaulstion like air magic as well.

As for spirit spamming i think exustion is a good balence for it. stops people putting up a massive wall of spirits and just waiting on the other team. OFc the other team deosnt want to just run into them all. GG stalemate...

Riotgear · Aug 11, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

What a ridiculous comparison. The ele has 85 - 115 energy pod and the the rit is 40-50 range. Do you even play GW?

Elementalists are not immune to exhaustion. If you think an ele can afford to hammer out exhaustion stuff all day, you're incorrect. They have far more flexibility, but over the course of a long game or PvE mission, using exhaustion skills more often than the exhaustion wears off is STILL going to gray your bar out. Just like you can't cast 25e and 15e crap all day without an attunement or glyph to power it.

Offloading the cost into exhaustion allows skills to be less expensive provided they are mutually-exclusive and not spammed. While it doesn't make any sense on Wielder's Strike, exhaustion is, in general, a way of providing convenient and flexible abilities by allowing overdependence to be controlled by something other than harsh energy costs or recharges.

Adding exhaustion and reducing costs effectively makes it easier to make builds around one "powerful" spirit without getting screwed on energy, while making it harder for builds that revolve around making a forest of KD/interrupt/de-prot shit.